Announcement - Possible Sporking Delay!

[a_sporking_rat]

EDIT: The fabulous and kind zombiexbunny has sent me Bullet, Hit List, and Kiss the Dead on my Kindle, so sporking will resume as soon as I get a new one drawn up! Please thank them!

Hey folks, I've reached my renewal limit on Bullet, so today I'm going to have to return it. I'll go back the next day to see if it's still there, but someone else might have requested it, and if that's the case then sporkings will be on hold until they return it or until I can get a copy from another branch by my own request.

In the meantime, how about a little discussion? Since I think it's safe to assume most of us are urban fantasy fans, let's go with that. What do you want to see more of in UF? Less of? More of but only if it's done right, or not at all? What do you have mixed feelings on? What author did you start with? What author turned you on to the genre? Has any author turned you off? What successes and failures have inspired you? What are the cliches and conventions you hate and love least? Are you an aspiring writer yourself, and if so, do you feel comfortable talking about your work here with us? Pretty much ANYTHING as long as it's related to UF, or at least reading/writing in general. Or rats too, talking about rats is ALWAYS encouraged!

To start with, I'd like to know if is the rest of the Artemis Fowl series after the first book worth reading? I loved the first book as a kid, but I remember not being as charmed by the second and thus quitting on it or the third. But now I'm reading the second and liking it quite well enough. Would you recommend continuing the rest of the books after I finish it?

Comments

[nanoquill.livejournal.com]

What do you want to see more of in UF?
I'd really like supernatural main characters who aren't human, have never been human, and don't think like humans, especially if they could have an entirely different culture (and not just as an excuse for teh sexay nakkid tiems and similar titillation, either).

I'd also like more strong female leads - not necessarily kicking ass, I'm more interested in having someone who can make her own decisions and who changes her mind when given new information but doesn't change it just because someone (read: love interest) tells her she should. Way too many authors think that if the woman's beating up other people (with proper justification, of course) that makes her 'strong' and then they have her falling into line with the nearest hot guy and following all his orders.

That's one thing I quite liked about the Georgina Kincaid series - she's a succubus, and yet she has more self-control and more self-determination (and less sex scenes) than AB. Not sure if you'd like them, but I did for what that's worth.

I can't remember what started me in urban fantasy, but I'd like to recommend the Matthew Swift novels if you haven't tried them - there are three so far. I really like stories where the magical underlies the normal world, and the series has combined some ideas that hadn't yet made it to cliche to make something I've never come across anywhere else.

I enjoyed the first Artemis Fowl books, but I stopped at the fourth, so I can't speak for the later ones.

Finally, rodents: Rat Agility! With bonus rabbit! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK-g25Seby8)
Mouse Agility! Fancy and spiny mice! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsqRS-syxhA) I'd never seen spiny mice before. These came from the animal shelter, according to the comments below the video, which is where they lost their tails. But they're still cute.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Ah, you'd be disappointed with my UF-series-in-planning then. It's all humans and post-humans at this point. Down the road I really would like the develop never-were-human types as the focus, though, since, like you, the idea of getting into this totally foreign psychology and culture intrigues me. I just need time to plan and develop them, which I'll luckily have plenty of since the stuff I'm doing now will take awhile in itself to finish!

I will put Matthew Swift and Georgina Kincaid on my list! And thank you for the AF input too!

Eee! Agility ratties! Haha, I am too lazy to train mine like that but I bet Sam would be good at it! It’s neat how they seem to get on okay with the bunny. Spiny mice are pretty neat, and I’d love to get my paws on some. What cuties!

[nanoquill.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying non-humans are the only thing I'd like to see in UF; it's just that I'm tired of "He's a shapeshifting dragon, but he acts like your average misogynist person". If they're something different, have them be different, dammit!

I tend to come up with really extensive worldbuilding for AU fanfics (which I then never write) and I had a dragon idea where the dragons are solitary predators: their entire culture is designed as a way to gather together without slaughtering each other for being in 'My place!'

Plus, since these dragons have telempathy, they honestly hate it if they find they agree with another dragon because it sets off instinctive warnings that they're being psychically dominated. They don't have the same problems with humans, since humans don't register as 'threat', and they can't really explain it to the humans they know because to them it's like explaining why you're leaning back when there's a jerk standing way too close and yelling in your face - it's so obvious just asking means there's something odd about you.

Re: Georgina Kincaid. If you read them, read all of them (it's a seven-book series - the author knew when and how to stop); she makes some big mistakes, which carry over a few books. Also, be aware that the ending of the series could be seen as one hell of a Deus Ex Machina, even though it does get set up by an earlier book.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying non-humans are the only thing I'd like to see in UF; it's just that I'm tired of "He's a shapeshifting dragon, but he acts like your average misogynist person". If they're something different, have them be different, dammit!

Oh yeah, that bugs me incredibly too. Neat idea with your dragons btw!

[nanoquill.livejournal.com]

I could give you loads of random information like that about my dragons.

Subject change: I just found out that there are excerpts of the Georgina Kincaid books here (http://www.richellemead.com/books/succubusblues.htm) (the first few pages of each), so you can have a look and see if they're something you'd be interested in. Just be aware that each book's first chapter is basically huge spoilers for the last one, so... (Also, I misremembered. There are six books, not seven.)

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

I'm actually writing a supernatural story where the main character is a born werewolf who was raised as a sort of pet by a vampire, completely away from humans in the mountains. I've been having a lot of fun writing about her being shoved rather unceremoniously into the human world (she's only fourteen when this happens) and having to deal with going to high school, human food (of which she'd never eaten), and all that, and the fact that pretty much everyone wants her dead.

I think I created this world because, like you, I wanted more stories about a lead who was never human and don't think like humans. Though in this case the girl doesn't exactly think like those from her culture would, since she wasn't raised in it either.

[nanoquill.livejournal.com]

Wow, that sounds incredible. [drools] Will it be posted somewhere, or are you going to have it published?

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet, since it's a sporadic project. I have a few chapters posted on a locked comm, but I need to edit those as I realized I made some mistakes.

[nanoquill.livejournal.com]

Sounds like my NaNo attempts. Still, I'd like to read what you've got.

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

Sure. PM me your email and I'll send you the rough draft, mistakes and all. :D

[nic echo (from livejournal.com)]

I've been working on an angel series that does have human protagonists, but it'll be third person so I'll probably focus some chapters on the angels and demons as well. Right now, I am still in the very early stages (character and world building) and although I do plan on having my female human being romantically interested in one of the angels, they will NOT be getting together. NO NO NO! Nor is he going to be her primary motivation to help the angels.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Wait wait wait, a UF series where the heroine is into the hot supernatural guy...and they DON'T hook up? Especially involving some really creepy behavior on his part? UR DOIN IT RONG

[nic echo (from livejournal.com)]

Damn. I'll put up my writer's card now.

Also, is it just me, or does it seem that every time the two love interests hook up, one or both become unbearable?

[nanoquill.livejournal.com]

Nor is he going to be her primary motivation to help the angels.
It's such a bad sign that this is unusual.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, anviliciousness of any variety is a turn-off for me.

Monarchy is just plain BORING to me at this point, or at least what everyone seems to do for it. A parliament/council/congress/ etc would have lots of delicious political drama too, with checks and balances and competing powers and the like.

[zombiexbunny.livejournal.com]

I've got a digital copy if you have an e-reader. More than happy to share.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Of the Artemis Fowl series? I appreciate it, but I prefer print, though my Kindle is pretty handle on road trips. Thank you very much though!

[zombiexbunny.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I should have been more specific!

I meant of Bullet - I have a digital copy if you'd like to continue your postings :)

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

OHHH XD

Whoops! Yeah, that would be cool, how does the transfer work?

[zombiexbunny.livejournal.com]

I can just send you the mobi file and you can put it on your kindle.

The only other way I know is for you to add my email to your approved sender list and give me your kindle email and I can email it straight to your kindle.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Ok, I know very little about how this works, so bear with me...how do you send me the mobi file and how do I put that on my Kindle?

[zombiexbunny.livejournal.com]

Not a problem :)

I would email you the mobi file. To put it on your kindle, you would need to first save the file to your computer. Then hook your kindle to the computer via usb. Then you would just drag and drop the file into the appropriate folder on your kindle (I have a kindle fire, so I put them in the book folder).

If you don't have a way to connect your kindle to the computer (I didn't for a while...had to buy a cord for it), I can send it to your kindle directly. To do that, you would first need to log into your amazon account and add my email to your approved email list. Then I would need your kindle email address. After sending it takes about 10 min or so to get to you. I can help you with that too if you want to go that route.

We can do this through PM's too if you don't want to clutter the thread up :)

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Nah, it's fine, this might be informative for other folks too! I don't think I have a cord, so if you could PM me your email?

[nic echo (from livejournal.com)]

Personally, I kind of sick of all the first person female protagonist. They have differences, but they all seem to be cut from the same mold to me: supposedly strong, but oooo... it's a sexy man, and then the book turns into a romance novel. Yawn. I don't mind romance in my books, but all the werewolf and vampire romance is boring to me now. I'd also like to see a lot less of vampires = gay trope.

I don't remember what author I started with, but I know LKH's Anita Blake definitely made me seek out more (which why I am so pissed with her later novels). She actually was an inspiration for me to start writing again. We her books perfect? Hell no, but they had such heart and spirit. Plus, they were fun. I wanted to write a book with its own voice and have my characters come to life for other people. Now, Hamilton is my inspiration on what not to do.

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Personally, I kind of sick of all the first person female protagonist. They have differences, but they all seem to be cut from the same mold to me: supposedly strong, but oooo... it's a sexy man, and then the book turns into a romance novel.

OH GOD TELL ME ABOUT IT. I just don't even bother anymore if it's a first-person female protagonist UNLESS the series has been recommended to me by someone I trust to have tastes like mine. I know that sounds terrible and I probably am missing some great stuff, but dammit I am tired of getting the same annoying crap every time.

Totally with you on vamp/were romances and vampires as metaphor for LGBT folks, ugh. The latter was NEVER good idea.

AB was either my first or one of my first, and unfortunately they are now also my inspiration in the bad way too.

[nic echo (from livejournal.com)]

I just don't even bother anymore if it's a first-person female protagonist UNLESS the series has been recommended to me by someone I trust to have tastes like mine.
Yeah, I will trust pretty much anything my room mate suggests and I trust a lot of opinions on Amazon's (anti)LKH boards. I know I have some female protagonist series on my reading list, but they're certainly not getting purchased.

BTW, if anyone likes more horror type vampires, I strongly suggest Brian Lumley's Necroscope series. It has unique vampires, ESPionage between USSR and England, and a man who can talk with the dead!

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

Ooh, thank you, I do enjoy the more horror types myself as it happens!

[viridian5.livejournal.com]

I'm so sick of romances disguised as urban fantasy, especially the ones that only use a veneer of UF to flavor what's otherwise a fairly generic romance plot. UF romance stories seem to love doing the love triangle of "strong" female protagonist and two guys who are different kinds of monsters and who usually do or believe in things that go against the woman's morals/beliefs but ooooh each he is so sexy that she can't resist! I'm also tired of the "only this guy/these guys let her know she's beautiful" thing and the "by not being paired up with a guy she's denying herself a better life" thing.

The gender politics in a lot of werewolf UFs really bother me, and it's so much worse if it's a romance-based story.

I'd like to get away from all the first-person narratives in UF, since so many of them only skim the surface of that world and few of them use unreliable narrator (at least in ways that the author is aware of).

[a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com]

UGH THE LOVE TRIANGLE ONE UGH HATE THAT

I'd like to get away from all the first-person narratives in UF, since so many of them only skim the surface of that world and few of them use unreliable narrator (at least in ways that the author is aware of).
Agreed!

[phantom-kiwi.livejournal.com]

This is off topic but a good vampire novel is Let the Right One In. It's Swedish and there's a movie but if you get it get the theatrical one. It's dubbed but I just put it in English subtitles with Swedish audio. There's a romance between a twelve-year-old and the vampire Eli but it's a really cute puppy love kind. You're better off looking up the plot of it online though. The summary I gave wasn't very good. :)

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yes, I've seen both the Swedish and American movies and I love it! Prefer the Swedish one, agreed. I'd definitely love the read the book if I can get it!

[phantom-kiwi.livejournal.com]

The book goes way more into Hakan and Eli's relationship and it is so creepy. But that's what makes it such a good horror story; it's not too over the top

[uf-addict.livejournal.com]

More of: I think what I would like to see more of is simply a really good long story. I'm a little tired of the series that give very little in each book. I like books not tv episodes because you can disappear into the world for hours or days.

Less of: This could actually be one very long list but I will just mention latest pet peeves. The main character being a total newbie with hidden powers that they never knew about or chose to deny. The use of secondary characters to prop up the main character instead of giving them their own life. Huge amounts of long boring info dumps before you actually get to the meat of the story. Attitude and sarcasm in place of humor. The main character is oblivious to her astounding beauty. (Please. You pretty much know you have it by the end of high school.)

And my biggest pet peeve - making 600 year old ancient powerful beings fall in love with some twenty something twit. Either make them an ancient being that has done it all and would never have an interest in anything that is less than a century old or don't make them so old and powerful. What's the problem with a vampire or whatever being only 50 or 70? That I could believe because human males that old fall for twenty something twits all the time. If there is significant age gap then sure they could have sex or a few conversations or have some kind of working relationship. And I would expect any being that has existed so long to be fairly devoid of normal human behaviors and very foreign.

Intro to the genre: Anita Blake series was my launching point to the paranormal craze that branches from horror/fantasy books. When shopping for new books I started seeing this series on display in my usual section, but had zero interest in vampire hunter stories. I liked speculative fiction and aliens! Or a really good ghost/occult story. I considered this vampire hunter series beneath me. But then I hit a rough patch in my life and didn't have the attention span of a gnat. I needed some mind candy and so the next time I ran across this series I picked one up. This was around the time TH was released so I looked to see what was book 1 and began. It was perfect for what I needed and I was having fun reading them. Until the horror of DM when I finally came out of my fugue. I read the scene about the group hug when Richard broke down crying because even if he was the daddy Anita still didn't want him. A bunch of master vamps and other shifters (wolves, leopards) all circled around Richard and held him as he cried. I looked up from the book and went WTF!!! So LKH turned me onto UF/PNR and nearly killed it for me as well. Until I discovered Kelly Armstrong and soon many others.

I don't write - at all. Purely a reader here. But my niece who just turned 13 is a budding writer and currently a fanatic for all things zombie. I spend as much time as I can encouraging her to keep her imagination alive by all the time reading and writing about her ideas.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

Agreed with you on EVERYTHING in your Less Of category! I feel the same way! And wow, you are an awesome aunt!

[patina.livejournal.com]

I'll chime in with the people that dislike inhuman creatures that act exactly like present day humans and 600 year olds who act like teens. I don't think every non-human needs to be presented as a Lovecraftian outsider or anything, but there needs to be some degree of difference, no matter how small.

Supporting characters need to be more than cardboard cutouts. Sometimes it seems like authors pointedly ignore characters who are plain vanilla humans or non-glamourous nonhumans.

I admit I have a weakness for weird creatures and action. I almost tossed an otherwise good book across the room because the main character kept having thought monologs about the way his world worked while he was right in the middle of chase scenes. But aside from that, I have a lot of patience with worldbuilding if it makes sense. Probably more patience than most people.

Oh, and humor is good, even the dry type. That was one of the reasons I loved Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. That and I loved the way Susanna Clark built the world and portrayed the fairies.