a_sporking_rat: rat (blue mouse)
[personal profile] a_sporking_rat
Last year, my mother's Christmas gift to me was that when it got warm enough, she would pay for a trail ride for me. Today was the day I redeemed that. Dad took me out to a ranch, and I was signed up for a two-hour morning ride with a group. I had been here before and knew that they had five black Percheron mares, and I asked if one would be available for me to ride, and, yup, one was! Lola, same girl I had last time. She's this big gorgeous thing with a white blaze on her face and three white socks of varying heights. She's a wonderfully smooth ride, as drafts tend to be, and her one quirk (all the horses there are mostly perfect but have some quirk, I've noticed, because after all they're not machines!) and hers is that she likes to rub her belly on things. Stumps, young trees she can bend over, that kind of thing. It's not her fault, she's got a fly allergy so all the fly bites on her underside itch her something awful. I'm told she also bites but I've never had a problem with that.

She behaved pretty well for me this time though! There was really just one problem spot where I couldn't get her off some trees (I am not afraid to give a horse a good kick, it's just that doesn't have much effect when the horse weighs around a ton!) but the guide helped. We passed by a deer that was nestled in the brush, and it didn't move even though it was less than ten feet from us. The guide said that it smelled the horses and not us and that's why it wasn't afraid. Despite it being a Georgia summer, it was pretty cool too since we were in the woods and thus shaded the whole time.

Only one thing was unfortunate, and that was the conversation. I admit, my ideal trail ride is one in total silence to just appreciate the woods and the horse, but I've never gotten that. People in a group are going to talk, that's just how it is. And I don't begrudge 'em that. What I most certainly do begrudge is where one guy decided to lead the conversation.

People in some parts of Georgia will ask "Where do you go to church?" upon meeting you because church is a really social thing, almost like a club for some folks/in some areas, but this guy straight-out asked one of the women in our group "Are you religious?" and even in the south that is a REALLY personal question. Definitely not one for a bunch of strangers on what should be a nice relaxing horse ride. She said she was, and they got to talking about it, and he basically used the conversation as a platform to very loudly broadcast his pretty fundamentalist and judgmental interpretation of Christianity, and, as if that wasn't uncomfortable enough, it seems no one else in the group was bothered, because they seemed to agree with him, at least everyone who spoke, and one turned out to be a nanny who was actively trying to convert her teenage charge, including taking him to church against his will. Needless to say, my ride got pretty nerve-wracking because I was terrified of any of them taking notice of me and asking MY opinion about anything, knowing then that, as an atheist lesbian, someone like me would probably be an object of hate and/or pity for them all, judging by the opinions being bandied about and praised. Luckily I was on the opposite end of the line and am a very quiet, easily-invisible sort, so no one talked to me at all about anything except the guide.

It's not that I think religion should never be discussed, but I do think it's rude to bring up a really divisive issue out of the blue in a group of strangers who are doing what is supposed to be a fun, relaxing activity and who CAN'T GET AWAY FROM YOU. I guess he just wanted a captive audience and/or expected everyone to agree with him, which, as I said, pretty much everyone seemed to except for me and maybe the guide, who was the only other one that didn't join in that particular conversation.

I think he also tried to sell some of the women a cruise. So yeah, captive audience. At least I had a choice to stop reading...

BULLET, CHAPTER 32, PART TWO

"You've hidden the gold tigers since the first emperor of China; that's twenty-two hundred years. You've been planning this for that long?"

Jake says they've been hoping that long, Anita says that's a long time to hope. That was the point of what he just said? Jake says living forever without aging gives one the time to hope. Anita tells us she doesn't know what to say to that (because there's nothing to say, get on with the important stuff!) and asks "So, you're saying the tigers with you are gold, yellow, whatever."

YES. YES THAT IS WHAT HE HAS BEEN SAYING. OH MY GOD.

He nods and says "they are the purest of their line that we have been able to preserve" because that doesn't sound creepily like eugenics "There are some who are like your Domino, of more than one clan" I hope they don't have the same bogus angst over it that he did "We have found that the tiger survivors mated with the gold breed mostly true." Mated with. He sounds like he's talking about breeding animals. Yeah, this is creepy as fuck. And would be cool if it were meant to be creepy, if we were supposed to be revolted that HOLY FUCK THE HARLEQUIN TREATS HUMAN BEINGS LIKE LIVESTOCK TO BE BRED LIKE SHOW DOGS but the most acknowledgement of this horror we get is Anita saying that she's American so she doesn't care about pure blood since "we're a nation that's all about the melting pot."

Your reaction should not be "well, pure tiger bloodlines don't matter to me since I'm American" it should be "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN 'MATED WITH' AND 'PRESERVE' WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU DOING TO THESE PEOPLE?" What's even creepier to me about all this is that since pure-as-possible golden weretigers are apparently the way to defeat Marmee Noir once and for all, this breeding-people-like-animals and choosing who does and doesn't get to (or have to) 'mate' with who was the RIGHT thing to do. Ugggh, shudderfest! Why would you choose that as a writer?

Jake says that pure blood is important to the tigers (yeah, because they were raised by sickos like you!) and Anita moves right on to the important matter of "So, I pick one, and do what?" Pick one. Again, it sounds like we're talking about a litter of puppies here. And Jake's answers...oh god: "Bond with them, Anita. Pet them, fuck them, mind-fuck them, whatever it is you do when you gain a tiger to call."

And then guess what Anita says?

Get ready

It's really terrible

Seriously, brace yourselves

Here it is

"I can also make them my Brides."

OH MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU OFFER THAT?! WHY WOULD YOU EVEN THINK OF THAT?!

Jake mentions that she's got a werelion she's already done that too (RATHER THAN ASKING HER WTF IS WRONG WITH HER) and she asks how he found that out, he says "Rumors that you've just confirmed" and that he's met other Brides before and they have a certain scent to them. Yeah, the scent of COMPLETE AND UTTER ENSLAVEMENT, INSIDE AND OUT. Jake says that he thinks a better move would just be making one of the tigers her Tiger to Call rather than her Bride. He doesn't say why. I assume he's tacitly trying to avoid her finding another excuse to Brideify them. Anita says "You left out my other lion" and he's like don't play games, we heard what happened to Haven and that "you need a new Rex and you haven't chosen a lion to call" WHY DOES SHE NEED A LION TO CALL, WHY DOES SHE NEED A PERSONAL ZOO

OK I GUESS NOW THAT MOAD IS BACK MAYBE THAT HELPS WITH THE 'NEED A GUY TO TOUCH' DEAL

BUT WHAT WAS THE REASON BEFORE?

Anita points out that obvious, that the Harlequin must have spies in their ranks (calling it now, I think Cardinal is going to turn out to be one) and he says not to feel special (that'll be the day!) because they have spies everywhere. Then why the fuck didn't they see this mess coming, eh? Stop whoever was bombing the MOAD?

Anita starts to pout, Jake reminds her that they have to stop the MOAD from turning the Council back into her puppets. Anita asks how they can fight something with no body...which, considering almost all battles are metaphysical now, isn't as good a question as it might otherwise have been. Jake says they have to be powerful to "cut her off from each body in turn" until she is left as nothing but a spirit which they believe will then fade. Anita points out they don't know if she'll fade, and while I do agree with this point, I must point out that, as with Bibi, she's not offering any alternatives herself. Then again, it really is just as important to point out flaws in plans as it is to come up with them, I guess, I'm probably just being harsh because it's her. Shockingly, that actually is something I try to avoid. I want to dislike the series because it's bad, not claim it's bad because I dislike it.

Anyway, Anita asks how to cut the MOAD off from her bodies. Jake says the same way she cut her off from Belle Morte. Wait, how did they even do that? Padma tried to stab her, then she took off and shook it later and I think I remember saying that Anita & Co were somehow responsible for that, but I don't think it was explicitly said how. Anita asks how he knows that since "No one in that room told you" (OH PLEASE LET IT TURN OUT SOMEONE SHE LUUUURVES WAS A SPY ALL ALONG!) and Jake says that Belle is the one who told him, that "she has turned to us to hide her." Anita stares, Jake asks her why she looks surprised, Anita says she doesn't know but that "we used the powers of Belle Morte's line to free her. We don't carry the power of everyone else."

WHAT

YES YOU DO

YOU KNOW YOU DO

Jake says she's lying, she says she's not, he reminds her that "you carry the power of every line that's attacked you. You collect vampire powers like butterflies." and cites her abilities from the Master of Beasts and the Dragon--oh, so the Dragon line feeding on anger is indeed canon, then. Good, that's what I thought. He says that his side wants JC to gain these powers too because "we need him to be powerful enough". Anita asks what for (UH, MAYBE FIGHTING THE MOAD AND HER MINIONS, YOU TWIT?) and Jake says "To head the council in America". Anita says he must have spies in every city (how does she reach that conclusion? he's only mentioned things that happened in St. Louis, in the walls of the Circus) and he says "the ones that are powerful enough to be helpful, yes."

Anita jumps back to the tigers fast enough to give me whiplash: "So I choose from the boys. Who's the girl tiger for?" MAYBE SHE'S NOT 'FOR' ANYONE. MAYBE SHE'S A PERSON, NOT A PARTY FAVOR. MAYBE THE GUYS ARE TOO, DAMMIT. Jake says that she doesn't have to pick a boy "but knowing your preferences, the girl is more for Jean-Claude." RRRGH THIS IS JUST LIKE WITH THE WERELION LADIES. THIS IS PIMPING OUT PEOPLE. THIS IS HUMAN TRAFFICKING. I DON'T CARE WHAT GREATER PURPOSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO SERVE. The least that could be done is acknowledging it. Seriously, if they did that, and debated seriously on whether pimping and eugenics is excusable in order to save the world, that would at least be somewhat interesting in that raises a difficult question. It would still suck in that it's a stupid, nonsensical solution that has no place in a paranormal thriller, but at least it would be something. But no, we can't even have that.

Anita asks what does that mean (WHAT DO YOU THINK 'FOR JEAN-CLAUDE' MEANS IN THIS CONTEXT, GENIUS?) and he says that "this works better if you like everyone in your circle of power. Your line of power is based on sex, lust, even love, so your liking everyone who sleeps over is a good thing. Maybe even a necessary thing for you." Firstly, that didn't answer her question, stupid though it was. Second, great, now Anita has an excuse to exile anyone she doesn't get along with and have it be a practical move rather than the petty one it really is. Thanks, Jake. Anita says "I just go in there and pick the cutest one? It's not like picking out kittens from a litter, Jake." Really? Because he calls them kittens, has been selectively breeding them like show animals, been talking about giving them to you like pets, and you've objected exactly zero times to any of that. I don't think he can be blamed for expecting you to view this as just that. Jake says that he thinks "you and Jean-Claude taking them all back to your room and seeing which ones you like best would be the surest way."

I can't believe I'm actually reading this. I can't believe this is actually part of any plot in any series. I can't believe this is the solution to an actual problem, let alone to the MOAD. Anita's apprehensions, however, are more along the lines of that she doesn't like the idea of propositioning sex from people she barely knows and also that she figures the weretigers are likely all too related to one another to be screwing. Jake assures her that he doesn't want them to screw each other, just "you, and Jean-Claude, and your men." Given just how many men she has, Anita says that "You're a little short on girls then." Hey, if this is just about power and not reproduction, who says the weretigers need to be girls in order to have sex with Anita's harem? As if she'd let girls near them anyway! Short on girls is just how she likes it, yo. Jake says that "We can get more if they make it here alive." More girls? Something tells me that Anita will ensure a tragic accident for these ladies en-route, or at least would very dearly like to.

Anita is like "So, someone is killing the clanless weretigers because they suspect what you've done", Jake points out the obvious that the killer is probably another Harlequin who doesn't know how weak the bloodline has gotten "so they're just killing every weretiger they find" in case one has gold has in its family tree. Anita says she hasn't heard anything about it, Jake says that's because they're only hitting the claness since they know the bloodlines of the clans (red and white) and also that they know about Cynric and thus presumably know he's not a gold. He then begs "Please, Anita, take Nathaniel to bed with them, or Micah, whoever you feel better about with this, but we need you to bond with a gold tiger, as soon as possible." You know, I don't think Anita needs to be begged in order to have a three-way with two guys and gain herself a new shiny big cat sex slave in the process.

Anita asks why this is so important, Jake says that "once you have all the colors under your control, you will gain an astronomical amount of power, and so will the tigers." Why though? No, really, how/why would that happen? What is the reason? Plus, there's never been anything like Anita before, so how can they be sure this would even happen? Anita says that's what Bibiana said (though of course she only listens now that a dude is saying it) and Jake goes on to say that "once you have a gold tiger to call your own, the others will not be able to resist you." Meaning they'll literally have their consent and free will taken away, I expect. Anita asks why Soledad and her master didn't rule the tigers then, he says because Soledad was just gold, not a five-color rainbow like super special Anita. Anita says she thought that being gold "automatically gave you all the other colors" (what, how did she get that) and he says no, that's not the case, Anita is just special of course. Anita asks what I just asked: How can he be sure that giving her a gold tiger will make all the other tigers hers too? He says "Because you already have a white and black."

I...what...how does that...huh? ANSWERS ARE NOT ANSWERS IN THIS SERIES.

Anita says she's not sure if they're her tigers to call or "closer to what Nicky is." How can you be unsure of that? It was very, very deliberate when she made Nicky her Bride, and he broke down in a traumatized wreck afterward at the very THOUGHT of being separated from here, whereas Crispin and Domino weren't bound to her quite as overtly by her choice and also were able to live apart from her for at least a year each just fine if I recall right. Maybe she's commenting on how they seem to have even less personality than the harem members added earlier in the game.

Jake says it doesn't matter either way, that she has power over them plus the blue tiger. Anita says that any sixteen year old would bond to a woman he had his first sex with. Jake says she's underestimating herself, I say she's trying to downplay just how much damage she did to that kid, even if the MOAD is the one who made her. he continues that either way she's still been able to call all the colors she's met, including red, and that "you were little queen enough to put out a countrywide call to all unmated males." Tigers don't have mates. They fuck and run. "You damn near caused a riot with our gold males. They were ready to get on a bus, or a plane, whatever it took, and come to you." So how come every 'unmated' male weretiger in the country isn't on her doorstep right now? No, wait, shit, that's not gonna happen, is it? "We had a hell of a time stopping them. Soledad's mistress couldn't call all the males, and neither could Soledad."

CALL ALL THE MALES

CALL ALL THE MALES IS A POWER

ANITA'S POWER IS 'CALL ALL THE MALES'

IS THIS SERIOUS RIGHT NOW

I AM LAUGHING SO MUCH

Also of course some icky other girl doesn't have that power, duh! Soledad was probably a blonde too, seeing as how the hair of the pure tigers corresponds to their fur colors.

Anita says that if she helps him with the tigers, he should help her lot with the assassins. Jake says that Rafael's rats are on it now and makes a comment about Richard "playing human". Anita says Richard likes that but he'll keep guards on him like a good Ulfric until the hit men are taken care of. Jake says it might not be taken care of till autumn (what season is it now..?) and Anita says that if it takes that long (two or three months, she says) then it will be fixed because "eventually one of us will be dead" by then. Yes, I think Anita dying would fix everything myself. Jake gushes over how calm and unafraid she sounds saying that. Jake, she's in a totally safe spot at this second, it's easy for her to sound calm. I would sound calm, and I am not someone with nerves of steel in the slightest.

He asks if she and JC "and whoever else you want" will take the gold tigers he's trying to pimp out. She says yes but of course only because she's fighting the MOAD and Council. He says he recalls her as being more argumentative last time he met her, she says maybe she's gotten tired of that. My bet is it's more because she's being offered sex toys versus whatever he was up to last time. He suggest that "maybe circumstances have worn you down" and while what he probably means is the aforementioned fighting against MOAD and Council, I'm going to interpret it as my version instead. Anita says that too, then asks why not include JC in this chat if the tigers are being offered to him too. Jake replies that "He's your master, Anita; if you wanted to include him you would" and reminds her that all she has to do is open up that little telepathic link and he can know everything that Jake just told her.

Anita says "Introduce me to your tigers" and he says "They aren't mine." Okay, I checked back through the rest of the chapter, he admittedly never calls them his, but given how they're otherwise being treated like objects he can sell and trade, it's actually MORE irritating to me that he's saying something like this instead of just acknowledging that, hey, he owns human beings. Anita, bizarrely, takes this statement not to mean that he doesn't want to be seen as a slave-owner but that he doesn't give a shit about the tigers and asks "You've known them since they were born. Don't you feel anything for them?" Since Anita thinks she loves her slaves, I guess this is in-character for her. He says that of course he does, and she asks how he can then "offer them up to us like they're not really people with their own free will?" I agree, but Anita being the one to say this just drips with irony. He says they were raised for this, she says he makes them sound like farm animals (you only just now noticed that, Anita?!) and he says he doesn't mean to but that the reason the tigers have been preserved and hidden for so long by the Harlequin wasn't out of kindness but for this purpose, because "we needed them so we could give them to you, and you could make them food."

Again, calling sex slaves 'food' just makes things...weird. Not erotic, and not any less objectifying.

Anita claims that her animals to call aren't food...even though doesn't she herself call them that regularly and use them for the explicit purpose of 'feeding' the ardeur on? Jake says that this is "pretty to think so" (another Anita-ism that is inexplicably used by everyone else AND is really annoying "but food is just energy that you eat, and they are the energy that feeds your and Jean-Claude's power base." Anita once again accuses him of thinking of the tigers like livestock. No, Anita, he's just pointing out the reality of how your bound 'sweeties' are exploited for your own gain and JC's. Jake, unlike Anita, is at least honest and says frankly that "We have married them, bred them, and watched over them like our special little flock of sheep for over a thousand years" and that they had to stay detached because there was no guarantee that the new Master of Tigers would be a kind person and that "if I loved them the way you love children" he wouldn't be able to hand them over to someone who wasn't...and, may I add, clearly he must be detached from them indeed to let Anita anywhere near them. Anita makes a remark about the big bad wolf watching the flock instead of the sheepdog.

Can I remind everyone how these sheep are actually one of the largest predators on land?

Jake says they call him Uncle Jake. Anita says that if she'd been "an honorable but cruel person" he'd still have given her the tigers. Yes, that's what he said, dumbass, and I think that's why he looks at her with "cold and pitiless" eyes as he says that yes, he would have. She calls him "Evil old Uncle Jake" which has distinctive creepy tones, especially in this kind of sex-obsessed series. He's like yup, she says "I couldn't be evil Aunt Anita." YOU COULD AND YOU ARE ALREADY. He asks if she couldn't even to stop the MOAD from spreading across the world like an evil plague, she says she doesn't know, he says she does and just doesn't like that her answer is the same as his.

Actually, I can totally see Anita letting the world go to nearly literal hell rather than giving a bunch of her tigers away to anyone, kind or cruel. She says that evil done in the name of good is still evil, which would probably carry more weight coming from someone who doesn't regularly do evil, cruel, petty things for her own selfish reasons that have nothing to do with the greater good. Jake than talks for a big fat paragraph about how lucky it is that Anita is such an innately good person who won't hurt his tigers so he can do his duty and not have it be evil but also that he doesn't lie to himself and he knows he'd still give the tigers to her even if she was evil and that's evil of him. Then he kisses her hand and thanks her.

And then he turns away but she sees the tears in his eyes and knows that he really does love them like children. Aw, look, he's a sweetie pie after all! Because we're not allowed to have morally gray characters in this series anymore. Okay, there's JC's plan to make himself head of the US Council, but that's it. Edward is now not only a family man but, as of Skin Trade, was shown to care about the lives of fallen officers too, so that pretty much wipes him out of the 'bad/gray person who just happens to help the hero' side, and Olaf isn't so much gray as 'we don't care that he's evil because he wants to bone Anita so everything is forgiven' and now we've got Jake who totally loves the weretigers like his kids. It's like LKH wants to make these complex dudes, but then she goes all fangirl over her own creations and has to give them the REALLY A GOOD GUY DEEP DOWN treatment versus just letting the reader have to wonder about it.

Now, in another work this would be a sign he's complex, which I think is what LKH is going for. But as I've said, we've all seen what happens when she tries to go that route--she ruins it despite herself, turning what should be a shades-of-gray character into a woobie fluffy fangirl interpretation of her own work. Not to mention it's added another layer of creepy to the fact they're being pimped out--now they're being pimped out by their foster father to boot! Also, if it turns out that sex with them really is the solution to beating the MOAD...then that means that someone (Bibi) told Anita immediately after the bad guy showed up how to defeat them, and then someone else (Jake) delivered the means to do so right to her literal doorstep. Add in to the fact that 'utilizing' them is NOT hard (well, not that way anyway) and how the fuck was this a challenge at all for anyone, least of all Anita?

About the only good thing I can say is that this is a sub-plot that actually ties into the main plot and moving it along in some way.

Date: 2013-05-28 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] duamuteffe.livejournal.com
The Anitaverse - Just one more reason why I am working hard to make my morally ambiguous characters actually morally ambiguous.

Date: 2013-05-28 09:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
LKH is an inspiration to us all...just probably not how she thinks she is.

Date: 2013-05-28 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadziabryn.livejournal.com
At least they had a conversation about the problematicness of it all? Sort of? Of course having Anita be all omg that's baaad ten minutes after being all "I could make them my slaves! :D :D" lacks a certain believability. :P

Of course I'm really commenting to say... HOLY CRAP THAT TRAIL RIDE. I am so sorry. I was all EEE PERCHERONS EEE TRAIL RIDING I'm so jealous! Then we got to the conversation and my jealousy turned to horror in a hurry. What the actual fuck people. WHY would you bring such a topic up in the company of strangers!? That's worse than bringing up politics, eesh. I would have been just as uncomfortable as you were, being out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by hardcore Christians would have terrified the crap out of me. Plus that NANNY wtf. I'm so sorry your ride was ruined. :( I'm with you, silence is golden. Especially while on a horse in the woods with lots of beautiful things to drink in.

Date: 2013-05-28 10:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
Of course having Anita be all omg that's baaad ten minutes after being all "I could make them my slaves! :D :D" lacks a certain believability. :P

Haha, indeed

And yeah, that baffled me. Even if I'd totally agreed with him too, I think I'd have still been uncomfy just on the basis of the topic being such a personal and controversial thing. One of my pals is a devout Christian, she's a very polite, intelligent, good-natured girl and I can't imagine her ever doing something like that. I just don't understand. And yeah, the nanny, I couldn't even.

It wasn't ruined, because the woods were really pretty and HORSES and DEER and DOGS but it was pretty unpleasant in that regard.

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From: [identity profile] jadziabryn.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-05-29 11:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2013-05-28 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cygnusrex.livejournal.com
Again, calling sex slaves 'food' just makes things...weird.

everything is people

Except for most therians apparently, because they're instantly reduced to horizontal tango bait via ardon't whenever they enter a certain radius around St. Louis. :l

That's what I don't get about the series the most, actually. I know they're monsters, but they function at a human level of intelligence and are practically indistinguishable half of the time. So why treat them as something lesser? ... Actually the whole 'oh yeah they look human, but they're actually below us and we're better than them and get to treat them with as much respect as we'd treat a kitchen appliance' thing seems painfully familiar. Would rather staaaay awaaaaay from that period(s) of history here, though.

Date: 2013-05-28 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-sporking-rat.livejournal.com
Again, calling sex slaves 'food' just makes things...weird.
Yeah, I get that they do technically feed the ardeur, but...yeah.

That's what I don't get about the series the most, actually. I know they're monsters, but they function at a human level of intelligence and are practically indistinguishable half of the time. So why treat them as something lesser?
Plus, they have super-strength and super-speed even in human form, and can become big fanged clawed beasts that can rip even a vampire to pieces, depending on the vampire and the therian in question. Antagonizing and demeaning them seems not only wrong, but dangerously stupid. Still, I can see why a vampire, if they had the ability to call/control that species, would definitely exploit that, and I kind of figure vampires over a certain age have just gotten detached and amoral enough to care entirely about politics, survival, etc. Plus you probably have to start seeing humans as 'less' as a vampire in order to hunt them for food, so seeing therians, who can also be fed on, is a logical next/concurrent step...but for humans like Anita, fellow therians, and 'good' vampires that really should not be the case, and if it is, there should be a good reason and it should not be treated as okay.

Actually the whole 'oh yeah they look human, but they're actually below us and we're better than them and get to treat them with as much respect as we'd treat a kitchen appliance' thing seems painfully familiar. Would rather staaaay awaaaaay from that period(s) of history here, though.
Awk D8

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From: [identity profile] cygnusrex.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-05-28 10:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-05-28 10:56 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] watersheerie.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-05-28 11:56 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2013-05-28 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mocha-latta.livejournal.com
"You've hidden the gold tigers since the first emperor of China; that's twenty-two hundred years."
Why does Anita have to know everything? Look, I get the desire for your main character to be your mouth piece to show how much research you've done. I've been doing pretty in depth research into 10th century Europe and Africa to ground my fantasy series and it breaks me heart to have my main character talk about "hanging thingies" and not notice the significance that someone in the Egypt-like place has an oven in her house; but I need to suck it up.
Storytelling isn't about "LOOK HOW SMART AND HARD WORKING I AM" it's about the damn story, and I highly doubt that Anita spends her spare time looking up Chinese history so that that date instantly springs to mind. I
If I was invested in the story at all, that would snap me right out of the immersion.

Date: 2013-05-28 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
Storytelling isn't about "LOOK HOW SMART AND HARD WORKING I AM" it's about the damn story
LKH tweets and posts a lot about how she does sooo much research, and there are many moments in the text where I am indeed pretty sure this is her sticking her head in to MAKE SURE THE READER KNOWS SHE KNOWS THESE THINGS whether Anita logically would/should or not :/ As you point out, it's pretty immersion-breaking.

Date: 2013-05-28 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] watersheerie.livejournal.com
Another chapter where we talk about potential fuck-buddies for Anita, while she ignores the fact that people are being brutally murdered by vampires in Atlanta.

Yup....hardboiled murder mystery right here.

Date: 2013-05-30 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] writtenelision.livejournal.com
What, that's not what all mystery writers do?

...And of course we get another chapter of that! I mean, what's more important, people being killed or Anita getting more 'Sweeties'?

Date: 2013-05-29 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] writtenelision.livejournal.com
...The description of that trail ride makes my head hurt. At least the horses and lovely forest helped a bit?

And... Morally grey characters are fun. I like making them. Like Maureen and Simon. And Sorcha and the Tiny Evil Kiss. Even Odile (in a weird way). But this entire chapter is just..

I cling to the 'unreliable narrator'. Because that's the only way I can make sense of any of this. I can sum it up as this: LKH probably needs therapy.

On another note, the fact that this reminds me of the way the Advaire family actually /breeds/ themselves for certain traits (And they have a bloody breed book to make sure they don't get inbred) shouldn't be as amusing as I find it. And not just because I'm imagining all their faces upon hearing about the gold tigers.

...Come here pretty gold tiger girl. Come hide behind Detty. She and her tiny skinny blondness will drive Anita away and you can be safe from JC.

Date: 2013-05-29 02:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
Yeeeah, I tried to just focus on that. There were lots of barn doggies too, including a new one, a puppy named Dolly who is going to get soooo big! She's part collie, part Pyrenees <3

Yes! Morally grey is great! I can even get behind a villain protagonist when that's intended and it's done right, or at least the author is trying! But that's...not. And you're right, it only could make sense as an unreliable narrators, which I pray is actually her intent all along and she's just trolling the fuck out of us.

Haha, yes, the Advaires! A breed book, omg. At least they're doing it themselves and it's not some vampire-run animal-husbandry deal! Shit, even Ruthven didn't do that (though only because he didn't see a point in it; morally he wouldn't give a fuck of course) beyond trying to avoid any alphas coming along.

YEEES ENVY GO WITH DETTYYYYY

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Date: 2013-05-29 06:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wanderingworlds.livejournal.com
OH MY GOD I LOVE TRAIL-RIDING. My horse is lame now (like, medically) and old, so I can't. But his quirk was that he liked to splash his belly in creeks and stuff, and a few times he tried to lay down to roll in it--with me on his back. I was like, oh hell no! You are a fat horse, sir, do not roll with my 12-year-old self on your back! But yeah, that was a while ago. I'm now 23, and he's 27. He's a good horse, kinda like a old puppy now. :)

My dad's old horse was stupid. She'd miss running into the skinny saplings, but almost walk right into the big tree trunks. Retarded.

Ew. I hate when religion is brought up in social settings. It's like bringing up politics. Just don't do it. Ever.


1.they are the purest of their line that we have been able to preserve *DO NOT WANT FACE DO NOT WANT FACE DO NOT WANT FACE* D: ... on the other hand, I just had the awesome plotbunny idea of a secret Harlequin lab where they're totally making test-tube golden tigers. Like all anime-style with the naked floating bishies and pretty girls in the liquid with their eyes closed and stuff. I'm not sure why I like this. But I approve. It'd be an awesome horror idea.

2. More of one clan? Like... so? Tribes have intermarried for thousands of years? That's like the whole point of stopping inter-tribal warfare? And uh... mated? That's only a little creepy. But I can get past it because I've heard the term used before by therians and weres. It's a little odd coming from a non-therian though. Like almost condescendingly trite, such as when a straight person tries to be overly PC about a LGBT relationship: "Aww, look, honey, they're cohabiting." I don't even know.

3. Putting the squick on hold for a moment: OH MY GOD I COULD LITERALLY JUST PET ONE TO GET AN ANIMAL TO CALL? DUDE I WOULD JUST BE TRA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-ing THROUGH ALL THE THERIANS RANDOMLY PETTING THEM TO SEE WHO BECAME MINE. LIKE ALL THE TIME. "Someone, stop her. She's doing it again. Who brought Moon Moon?!" LIKE THAT'S AWESOME. FORGET FUCKING/MIND-FUCKING. I'D JUST PET EVERYONE. AND CUDDLE. ALL THE AFFECTION.

4. WHAT?! IN WHAT WORLD IS IT OKAY TO BE LIKE "Or I could just make one of them my Bride, instead"??? LIKE WHY WOULD YOU EVEN BRING THAT UP?! NICK IS NOT A GOOD ALTERNATIVE! AT LEAST ANIMAL TO CALLS HAVE MARGINAL SOME FREE WILL NOT THAT YOU'D KNOW IT LOOKING AT HER SWEETIES YES I AM EYEING YOU MICAH AND ALSO YOU NATHANIEL IF YOU ARE ONE SHIT IS NATHANIEL ONE OF HER TO-CALLS? OR JUST ONE OF HER BOOTY-CALLS? BECAUSE HE'S JUST FUCKING USELESS AND I FORGET Jake, you are making me hate you and the Harlequin so much. I am all about my random character the rotting-vampire Shiloh/Ghislaine (she's now Cajun so she can be short and "dark" and almost French like all good vampires should be) being the new Master of Tigers. Because fuck Anita. Not literally. Ew.

5. *HEAD-EXPLOSION FROM THE HUMAN-TRAFFICKING* LKH THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY AND INTERNATIONALLY WHY ARE YOU WRITING ABOUT IT WHY IS YOUR MAIN CHARACTER PARTICIPATING IN IT WHY IS THIS HAPPENING WHY IS IT OKAY OH MY GOD CAN SOMEONE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. I demand that Wander has a personal vendetta against human trafficking and blows up every single one of these arcs. Like everyone. She just goes and does it, regardless. That or I'm making Ghislaine a real OC and she's doing it. BECAUSE THIS IS BULLSHIT AND I HATE THIS.

Edited Date: 2013-05-29 06:49 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-29 06:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wanderingworlds.livejournal.com
6. OH MY GOD IT'S LIKE A ROMAN SLAVE MARKET. THEY'RE GOING TO BE DRESSED UP AND LOOKING THEIR BEST, PARADED IN FRONT OF ANITA AND JC, AND THE TWO "NOBLES" WILL PICK THEIR FAVORITE "SLAVE" AND USE THEM AS THEY WANT. I'M GOING TO VOMIT ALL OVER THE WORLD NOW. ALL. OVER. THIS. GODDAMN. ANITAVERSE. WORLD.

7. OH MY GOD I WANT TO BE A PURE BLUE TIGER. THEN I'D HAVE BLUE HAIR. :B

8. This whole chapter... read like a really bad anime crossed over with the Holocaust. Like anime Nazi porn. THERE WE GO. BUT WITH THERIANS AND ANITA.

Date: 2013-05-29 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] subtle-shades.livejournal.com
6.) ...You do realize that slavery in the ancient world was governed by a specific and complicated set of laws that determined who was owned, why, and for what period of time? The terms for extracting one's self from slavery, at least within the Roman empire, were laid out in the law and well known. And not every slave in the Roman empire was a sex slave or even a slave that an owner could have sex with. Slaves could even become full citizens of the empire (although it was very difficult.)

In the Roman empire, slaves had some legal rights (how many and which ones depended on the era and their location), a certain amount of freedom (depending on their personal situation and the era), and the faint hope of maybe someday extracting themselves from slavery. Roman slaves also had some legal protections.

(That was especially true after one of the (saner, more severe, and vaguely moral) early emperors went to a dinner party where his host threw several of his slaves into a pit of hungry eels as part of the night's "entertainment". The eels alternately tore them apart and ate them alive. The emperor's host, who was fabulously wealthy and incredibly, decadently corrupt, laughed at his slaves' suffering. The emperor was apparently quite polite about the entire situation and didn't protest the waste, as per the rules governing being a good guest. But as soon as he got home, he started legislating.)

None of those things -- legal rights, legal protections, and a slim hope of freedom in the distant future -- are extended to Anita's "sweeties."

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Date: 2013-05-29 08:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-naomi-ja.livejournal.com
I'm so, so, so depressed at LKH's portrayal of shapeshifters in general and weretigers in particular, I don't think I can even summon the energy to write why.

Date: 2013-05-29 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] subtle-shades.livejournal.com
There's got to be something in the water. Or maybe there are only so many ways to be a religious asshole in public but that exact question -- "Are you religious?" -- came up at a job interview! It was literally the first thing that the guy asked me. And yeah, he took my flabbergasted silence as the opportunity to very loudly beat me about the head and shoulders with his fundamentalist and extremely judgmental POV, especially regarding the state of the souls of those poor, deluded non-Born-Again types. (I'm one of those deluded people.)

To be fair, he gave me several opportunities to chime in, brown nose, and agree that he was right but I just couldn't do it. And, uh, I'm not a very good liar so it was probably pretty obvious fairly early on that I thought he was a blowhard and a douche canoe (especially when I started talking.) So, I didn't get a recommendation to go to the second round and meet/be interviewed by his boss, who does the actual hiring.

I happened to overhear part of someone else's interview, however, and that other applicant took to the subject matter with alarming enthusiasm. I stopped listening about the time he and the interviewer started gleefully discussing "leaving room for your guardian angel" between them and their dates and saying deeply disapproving/condescending things about those slutty women who wore their dress hems at or above the knee because they were all in danger of "falling", don't you know. (I was, and am, one of those women. In fact, the suit skirt that I was "merely" knee-length. And, since that other applicant was in front of me, I went into that pre-interview knowing that I really, really didn't have a chance at being selected for further interviewing. I consoled myself with the fact that if that interviewer was the pre-screener for the other rounds of hiring, the place was probably staffed by a lot of people who were just like him. Sooner, rather than later, I would've gone off on one of them for being an antediluvian asshat and probably emphasized my point by popping that person in the mouth.)

But I definitely agree with you that it's horrifically rude to start beating strangers about the head and shoulders with your religious beliefs, especially when they can't escape (or theoretically aren't supposed to contradict) you. If it's any consolation, I've known conservative fundamentalists who were lovely people.



"You've hidden the gold tigers since the first emperor of China; that's twenty-two hundred years."
1.) LOOK AT MY RESEARCH! Ironically, she could've gotten that info in much more gracefully through Jake but then Anita wouldn't be the most knowledgeable person in the conversation.
2.) There's certainly an element of Anita being a Chosen One or savior type to this. People have been relying on her being born (and a corrupt, dictatorial sociopath) for thousands of years before her birth. It's another inadvertent way of making her the Most Special-ful.

Jake says living forever without aging gives one the time to hope.
So those people who age, no matter how slowly, are hopeless and doomed? That's depressing.

"So, you're saying the tigers with you are gold, yellow, whatever."
What's an AB chapter without lots of meaningless repetition.

"they are the purest of their line that we have been able to preserve" because that doesn't sound creepily like eugenics
It is eugenics.

He sounds like he's talking about breeding animals. Yeah, this is creepy as fuck.
You know, I've seen this plot element in several other works lately but, even if the individual characters don't acknowledge that it's creepy and wrong, the narrative does acknowledge those things. This could be an interesting plot element if the main character was all, "Ugggh, no. I'll find some other way to win. Some things just shouldn't happen." That, of course, never even occurs to Anita/LKH. And I'm pretty sure that the whole "pure blood is important to the tigers" thing was meant to make the selective breeding program okay because LOOK, THE TIGERS WANT IT THAT WAY. (It's still not okay, of course.)

"I can also make them my Brides."
Yeah, she totally hates what she did to Nicky an thinks that it's (possibly) morally/ethically wrong.

Date: 2013-05-29 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
A job interview? Oh my god, that's even worse! Yeah, I have a friend who is a very devout, serious Christian and she's a lovely, polite girl who I can't fathom ever pulling anything like that. Ditto for my late grandfather.

but then Anita wouldn't be the most knowledgeable person in the conversation
Well, we can't have that now can we?

It's another inadvertent way of making her the Most Special-ful.
Yuuuuuuuup.

So those people who age, no matter how slowly, are hopeless and doomed?
Duh, they stop being pretty!

And I'm pretty sure that the whole "pure blood is important to the tigers" thing was meant to make the selective breeding program okay because LOOK, THE TIGERS WANT IT THAT WAY.
Most likely.

Yeah, she totally hates what she did to Nicky an thinks that it's (possibly) morally/ethically wrong.
It gets creepier. Within a few chapters she starts asking Jake questions regarding what he knows of Brides, including HOW MANY COULD SHE MAKE DDDD888

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Date: 2013-05-29 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lady-fellshot.livejournal.com
Also, if it turns out that sex with them really is the solution to beating the MOAD...then that means that someone (Bibi) told Anita immediately after the bad guy showed up how to defeat them, and then someone else (Jake) delivered the means to do so right to her literal doorstep.

And LKH considers this an action heroine. >_<


"I can also make them my Brides."

OH MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU OFFER THAT?! WHY WOULD YOU EVEN THINK OF THAT?!

Because LKH cannot control her ex-husband's happiness.
Because LKH cannot control the critics who have repeatedly noted that the series has gone down the crapper.
Because LKH cannot control the (probably) reduced book advances her publishers have offered her.
Because LKH cannot control the (probably) lagging book sales.
Because the concept of a rebellion not led by Anita is unheard of.

I think this is a case of the author's neuroses festering for an extended period of time and exploding all over their fiction. Anita-Sue has to have total control over as much as possible because the author doesn't feel she has any. If this was played up as the horror it is and acknowledged as such, it would be better for the story overall, but that doesn't play into the Marysue fantasy.

Date: 2013-05-30 04:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] writtenelision.livejournal.com
Someday, someone will write a story, in which a roving band of competent therapists find Anita. And hilarity will ensue.

Date: 2013-05-29 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] subtle-shades.livejournal.com
I assume he's tacitly trying to avoid her finding another excuse to Brideify them.
Jake has Anita's number. Open defiance/disapproval will only make her more determined to do the thing. Disinterest, however, is much more safe.

(calling it now, I think Cardinal is going to turn out to be [a spy])
Most likely. Cardinal is dating one of Anita's (least remembered) men! She's got to be vilified and then killed, even though Anita isn't interested in Damien when he's not dating someone who isn't her. It's a rule. (Narcissus is lucky that Anita has mostly forgotten him... and that she doesn't seem him as a romantic rival since complicated gender issues render him a non-threat apparently.)

they have spies everywhere. Then why the fuck didn't they see this mess coming, eh? Stop whoever was bombing the MOAD?
Because the spies everywhere are a new thing. And continuity is for nerds. (And of course Anita's put out! How dare people not be so into her sex life that they just have to spy on it?! Putting spies everywhere makes her seem ordinary and uninteresting.)

Jake reminds her that they have to stop the MOAD from turning the Council back into her puppets.
It's sad that all of the secondary and tertiary characters have to remind Anita to keep her eyes on the prize. THEY'RE all worried about the potential for their untimely demise. Anita just wants to know what everyone, including them, looks like naked.

Jake says the same way she cut her off from Belle Morte. Wait, how did they even do that?
I was under the vague impression that Belle rescued herself. That scene was stupid and horribly garbled but that was the impression that it gave me. I thought Anita started taking credit for Belle's rescue after the fact, even though she and her boi-toys had had nothing to do with it. Rewriting history in her own mind, so to speak.

Jake says that Belle is the one who told him
LOL! BELLE is more technologically able that Anita. She managed to get a hold of him across continents without using metaphysical crap.

"you carry the power of every line that's attacked you. You collect vampire powers like butterflies."
It's sad that the tertiary characters who haven't been around in ages know more about Anita and her powers than Anita does. She's got a mind like a sieve. (Or she's that desperate for compliments.)

He says that his side wants JC to gain these powers too because "we need him to be powerful enough"
My crack!theory is that Jake, Augustine, & Co are all trying to help JC to power up because they genuinely want to be free of the MOAD (since her permanent death might not affect most of them) but they don't want to create another, younger MOAD in Anita. So they're trying to help JC siphon off enough of Anita's powers to persuade JC to let them kill Anita (since he'll then be strong enough to survive and rule despite her loss) and not to complain when they get around to killing Anita (after she's served her purposes.) Or, hell, maybe JC's Super Sekrit Vamp Power is to absorb others' powers if given enough of a "jump start" so he's arranged everything -- Bibi, Jake, Augustine, & Co. -- to manipulate Anita into helping him achieve what he's wanted all along, to have her powers not her self. JC'll kill her himself when he's finished with her.

MAYBE SHE'S NOT 'FOR' ANYONE. MAYBE SHE'S A PERSON, NOT A PARTY FAVOR. MAYBE THE GUYS ARE TOO, DAMMIT.
CRAZY TALK!

"but knowing your preferences, the girl is more for Jean-Claude."
Human trafficking across state lines (and, presumably into the country) is a federal offense. These people should all be in prison. Anita's practically daring Jake to admit to having done the unimaginable: brought a gift for someone else. Also, this poor girl is going to have to be murdered since she's for JC.

The least that could be done is acknowledging it.
If Anita/LKH acknowledges how wrong/fucked up this whole scenerio is, she'll have to acknowledge that Anita is Actively Evil. And that cannot ever be acknowledged, most especially since Anita is LKH's avatar.

taking them all back to your room and seeing which ones you like best would be the surest way.
It's like taking a car for a test drive! *headesk!*

Date: 2013-05-29 06:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
I was under the vague impression that Belle rescued herself. That scene was stupid and horribly garbled but that was the impression that it gave me. I thought Anita started taking credit for Belle's rescue after the fact, even though she and her boi-toys had had nothing to do with it. Rewriting history in her own mind, so to speak.

This is pretty much exactly what happened, yes.

brought a gift for someone else
Gasp! He wouldn't dare!

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Date: 2013-05-29 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] subtle-shades.livejournal.com
Anita... doesn't... like the idea of propositioning sex from people she barely knows
This hasn't bothered her lately.

Jake assures her that he doesn't want them to screw each other, just "you, and Jean-Claude, and your men."
Well, no deal then. Jake seems to be expecting Anita to share her harem members with other members of his harem. What series does he think that this is?

the killer is probably another Harlequin who doesn't know how weak the bloodline has gotten
This makes no sense since they've been talking about the Harlequin tending & enslaving the golden tigers as a group. Presumably they ALL know about the golden tigers' existence and locations. Why would a Harlequin bother killing random clanless were-tigers when the Harlequin as a group have all the yellow ones under their collective thumb, anyway? If the killer was another Harlequin, he/she would already know where to find the yellow tigers. Logically, this killer has to be someone else.

Anita says she hasn't heard anything about it, Jake says that's because they're only hitting the clanless since they know the bloodlines of the clans
Also, Anita never leaves the circus. She rarely leaves its bedrooms.

Astronomical powers to Anita & the tigers
If they don't get a benefit, no matter how illogical, Anita can't claim to be enslaving them all for their own good.

Anita says that any sixteen year old would bond to a woman he had his first sex with.
I have doubts about this assertion. I think your trauma theory is much more likely.

"you were little queen enough to put out a countrywide call to all unmated males."
a.) "Little queen" sounds incredibly condescending no matter what way you slice it.
b.) LKH's "strong and independent" main character's new super power is to use her irresistible attractiveness to call all the men-folk around her to her side and entice them into doing her bidding? Yeah, this is ground-cutting and new and very feminist.
c.) Apparently, illogical and unreasonable applications of "natural law" only applies to the lions. Or LKH really thinks that tigers mate for life.
d.) Is anyone else humming "my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard, it's better than yours, damn right it's better than yours"?

Richard "playing human". Anita says Richard likes that but he'll keep guards on him like a good Ulfric
Also incredibly condescending.

it will be fixed because "eventually one of us will be dead" by then.
Because Anita and Richard will have killed each other? Or does she think the were-rats are incompetent? Something else?

Jake gushes over how calm and unafraid she sounds saying that.
Got to get the requisite number of compliments in!

then asks why not include JC in this chat if the tigers are being offered to him too. Jake replies that "He's your master, Anita; if you wanted to include him you would"
a.) He might say no. JC's complained about her taking on new harm members and the size of her harem before.
b.) He might find out that he has the opportunity to bang an evil Blonde Girl instead of waiting for Anita's "favors"!

Date: 2013-05-29 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] subtle-shades.livejournal.com
reminds her that all she has to do is open up that little telepathic link and he can know everything that Jake just told her.
Also, she's an idiot.

Anita says "Introduce me to your tigers" and he says "They aren't mine."
It's not that he's against human trafficking, obviously. It's that he's not Spechulful enough to claim ownership of the rare golden tigers.

[the tigers are] being treated like objects he can sell and trade
Technically... he's not selling or trading them. He's GIVING them because everyone has to give Anita human tributes. Otherwise, she won't talk to them civilly. It's another rule. (This is where Bibi went wrong.)

Anita doesn't want to be seen as a slave-owner but that he doesn't give a shit about the tigers
Apparently, Anita doesn't believe in a world where people don't want to own other people. It says a lot that "owned and owners" is her default setting. Her "sweeties" should take note of that.

"offer them up to us like they're not really people with their own free will?"
The irony is hilarious! And acknowledging others' person-hood or their right to free will has never really appealed to her before. I'm not even sure why it's occurred to her now. Perhaps as a faint hope of making Anita look like a Good Person. Same with her comments regarding treating them like farm animals.

Anita claims that her animals to call aren't food...even though doesn't she herself call them that regularly and use them for the explicit purpose of 'feeding' the ardeur on?
Like so many other things in this 'verse, it's only okay if Anita does it! Reality and practicality have no meaning to Anita.

"honorable but cruel"
As terrible as this would be, Jake probably just wishes that this was the case. The tigers will probably come to wish it too.

Jake than talks for a big fat paragraph about how lucky it is that Anita is such an innately good person who won't hurt his tigers
Requisite brown-nosing is a go!

Because we're not allowed to have morally gray characters in this series anymore. Okay, there's JC's plan to make himself head of the US Council, but that's it.
But it's NOT framed as morally gray. The narrative frames it as The Only Thing to Do and Obviously Right and whatever else. LKH and the narrative see JC's ambitions as forced upon him and not his fault and acting for the good of all, etc. By LKH's estimations, there are no gray characters in her work. There aren't any badasses either.

Date: 2013-05-29 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zombiexbunny.livejournal.com
I think asking about people's religion is a personal question no matter where you live. Unless it's invited, it's rude and intrusive.

I was raised southern baptist (I live in arkansas), but am now atheist as well. I can tell you that you handled that a lot better than I would have. As I've gotten older (I'm 38), I've grown less tolerant of ridiculous bullshit. And while I used to stay quiet and hope no one looked my way, I speak up now because I'm tired of people feeling like they can just throw their weight around and try to intimidate others.

The office building I work in has a fundamentalist Christian group on the bottom floor that is fond of those tactics. They recently went on a tirade (newspaper, local news, etc) about how this local atheist group is intent on destroying our country because they DARE to buy bus ads that say "are you good without god? Millions are" (and that was ALL it said). Forced them into court to defend their right to buy advertising that ANYONE else would get with no issues.

Sorry, I busted up in your recap like that. This shit just pisses me off to no end. People are not defined by their religion or lack thereof. Or sexual orientation. Or gender. Or any of that other bullshit. And I'm just tired of it. And also pissed on your behalf that you couldn't even enjoy a fucking trail ride without being subjected to that bullshit.

Date: 2013-05-29 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
Hey, no problem, I'm actually appreciative of the 'being pissed on my behalf' bit. It lets me feel that I'm not being a baby about this. Validation and all that. And you're always quite welcome to talk about whatever I put before the actual spork, that's why it's there!

Date: 2013-05-29 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evilgrayson.livejournal.com
We get door-to-door Jehovah's Witnesses on occasion. I generally warn them, using a phrase from the Scriptures, that they aren't going to make any converts. As far as I'm concerned what happens after that is down to them, but if they want a debate about various passages of the Bible I'm happy to oblige.

The best/worst ones so far were the women who tried to tell me that a passage about how mankind should obey God as a woman obeys her husband wasn't at all misogynistic.

Date: 2013-05-29 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
Wish I'd had a door to shut on this guy :/ At least JWs simply request an audience. Big difference for me there.

and auggggh ew nope nope nope!

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Date: 2013-05-29 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] baeraad.livejournal.com
I feel ya. I have a loud-mouthed libertarian at work who's always holding court by his desk, and everyone's sucking up to him and agreeing that everything he says is oh so reasonable, too. When I complain about that, people tell me that it's not necessarily that people agree with the assholes, but that they'll let an asshole have his way if the alternative is having to argue with him. I don't know, I am not sure that that's any less unnerving... :P

Your reaction should not be "well, pure tiger bloodlines don't matter to me since I'm American" it should be "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN 'MATED WITH' AND 'PRESERVE' WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU DOING TO THESE PEOPLE?"

I think that LKH has just gotten tired of pretending to be morally outraged about the nightmarish world of slavery and abuse that she's created. Now she almost seems to admit that that's exactly how the world should be (within the bounds of fiction, at least). Everyone needs to have orgasms forced on them, and those who are boring and conventional and have relationships and such shit needs to have babies forced on them - how are we to fill the empty voids of our existences if we are allowed to turn down things? And if anyone fights back against the lives LKH knows that they ought to live, they need to have those pesky capacities for free will removed, for their own good.

And to think that people look at me funny when I say I'd be in favour of (for example) enforced nutritional standards in food. :P I mean, I have what must be considered an abnormally low regard for freedom and choice (I've... never really had much use for them myself. I've always felt that being given the choice to do the wrong thing isn't freedom, it's getting enough rope to hang yourself), but LKH freaks me out with how in favour she is of people's lives being micromanaged. ^_^;

CALL ALL THE MALES IS A POWER

Her metaphysical bullshit brings all the boys to the yard!

Anita, bizarrely, takes this statement not to mean that he doesn't want to be seen as a slave-owner but that he doesn't give a shit about the tigers

But if you don't want to control every aspect of someone else's life, then you can't really love them! SLAVERY IS LOVE! PERSONAL SPACE IS HATE!

Because we're not allowed to have morally gray characters in this series anymore.

Only morally black characters that we are told are morally white...

Date: 2013-05-29 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nanoquill.livejournal.com
Why say twenty-two hundred years? Why not say twenty-two centuries? It sounds better! It's not like it makes the time seem shorter.

What's even creepier to me about all this is that since pure-as-possible golden weretigers are apparently the way to defeat Marmee Noir once and for all, this breeding-people-like-animals and choosing who does and doesn't get to (or have to) 'mate' with who was the RIGHT thing to do. ... Why would you choose that as a writer?
Damn you, plotbunnies. LKH chose it because it's self-reinforcing awesome for AB; her tigers are 'pure', therefore rare, therefore even more special, and it's not speshul for the sake of speshul because look! They have to be purebred to stand against MOAD!

Take the basic idea of a Big Bad that can only be defeated by a purebred X, Y or Z out of this story and shoot the plotbunnies. I would love to see what a talented writer could come up with using that for a starting point.

"I can also make them my Brides."
I did not read this. I refuse to acknowledge this.

This is proof that she doesn't get overwhelmed by the ardon't. This is her stating that she can and will do this to people on purpose, intentionally - this is her planning to do this with nothing clouding her judgement and no immediate 'urgency' to stop her considering other options.

This marks her as an irredeemable monster because this is the proof that she sees nothing in what she does that needs to be redeemed.

OH PLEASE LET IT TURN OUT SOMEONE SHE LUUUURVES WAS A SPY ALL ALONG!
I know this can't happen, but I really want the spy to be Nick. His mind constructed a false personality to protect itself from Anita, and that gave the real him enough leeway to find gaps in her orders and use them to get information out to her enemies...

I don't think he can be blamed for expecting you to view this as just that.
She does. She just says that she doesn't because some people are gullible enough to believe her.

And she's one of them.

Actually, though, it isn't like picking a kitten from a litter. People don't choose kittens based on 'I want to have sex with that one!'

Why though? No, really, how/why would that happen?
Theoretically, it could be a permanent version of when she metaphysically raped the wererats/wereswans - all their power constantly available for her to use at her whim. (This doesn't give the tigers any more power, but let's be honest - LKH won't care about them so long as Anita has teh shinies.)

Anita's power is Summon All Male Horny Heterosexual Werebeasts. Not even remotely surprised at this point.

"I couldn't be evil Aunt Anita."
No, because aunts are related, and you can't stand the thought of having ties with someone that aren't your choice and entirely in your favour. Aunts have responsibilities to their nieces and nephews.

now they're being pimped out by their foster father to boot!
Will... not... commentfic...

Date: 2013-05-29 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
This marks her as an irredeemable monster
Yup. It's just...I can't even.

His mind constructed a false personality to protect itself from Anita, and that gave the real him enough leeway to find gaps in her orders and use them to get information out to her enemies...
Awwwman that would be so cool!

People don't choose kittens based on 'I want to have sex with that one!'
She actually made a joke about that.

COMMENTFIC WOULD BE GOOD ACTUALLY because I srsly do want to write/read some golden tiger centric fic that explores just how fucked up this is from their side.

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Date: 2013-05-29 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
Aw, you don't have to apologize! Folks like that aren't in the same camp at all as far as I see it. And awwww, that's cute!

You make a really good point about the lifespans! Speaking of that, this chapter has actually made me start thinking about Anitaverse Cornelius and how he looks at therians in general as well as the vampire tendency towards enslaving them, treating them like objects and pets, etc. On one hand, he was born and lived his whole life as a slave before being turned. On the other hand, he's had a few hundred years to detach from his human life and human mentality, plus while black and white people are the same species, therians and vampires aren't, etc. I have no idea where his opinions fall quite yet, but at least some good (realizing I should work that out) came out of reading this abomination?
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Date: 2013-05-30 02:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] writtenelision.livejournal.com
Also. Random. I just had the mental image of the look on John's face during this whole thing. And hiding Sorcha behind him because she might catch something from Anita.

"Yep. Can resist the call. Too busy looking after tiny immortal vampire child."

...And the references to kittens made me think of the Tiny Evil Kiss trying to show up to get one of the tigers. Because they can totally take care of a pet! ...As long as they're not allergic to bees.

(Flower would like to let it be known that she thinks Anita would be good biting practice for her hornets)

Date: 2013-05-30 03:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
HAHAH, I was actually thinking about those two today! Basically trying to ponder working them into Sue vs Sue, maybe Sorcha as Master of Tigers, but as it is I'm juggling so many characters and plotlines that big additions like that really aren't so workable DX No reason it can't happen in another fic though!

SPEAKING OF THE TINY EVIL KISS check out this rant by our very own commenter tungstenmonk! I think you'll know which part is very relevant to them ;D
http://scrivveting.blogspot.com/2013/05/eight-things-i-want-to-see-in-urban.html

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Date: 2013-05-30 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aikaterini.livejournal.com
/Pick one. Again, it sounds like we're talking about a litter of puppies here./

Or a group of slaves at auction. Yeah, Ms. Hamilton, the U.S. already had a system like this. It was called slavery. Millions of people suffered and died because of it, a whole war was fought over it, and it was eventually outlawed. Nowadays, you’ll find very few people who will dare to voice support for it. And there’s a very good reason for that. Because, nowadays, most people are civilized enough, intelligent enough, empathetic enough, and HUMANE enough to realize that IT’S WRONG. IT’S WRONG. That’s why people are horrified when they learn that slavery persists to this day in other forms, such as human trafficking. Because IT’S WRONG. And no amount of sexy, long-haired therians will change that.

/WHY WOULD YOU EVEN THINK OF THAT?!/

So much for regretting what happened to Nicky.

/WHY DOES SHE NEED A PERSONAL ZOO/

Pfft, that should be a new phrase when describing this series. Not only can reviewers joke about Anita’s harem and joke about the new species of were-animal that she’ll bang, but refer to her harem as “her own personal zoo.”

/MAYBE SHE'S NOT 'FOR' ANYONE. MAYBE SHE'S A PERSON, NOT A PARTY FAVOR. MAYBE THE GUYS ARE TOO, DAMMIT/

I find it unsettling that a modern-day author glorifies slavery and objectification of people to such a degree. Your “heroine” should not be gleefully planning to enslave people and treat them like sex dolls. Also, why haven't any of these people been arrested? They live in the modern-day U.S. with its Constitution and laws and legal system. Sex trafficking is a federal crime. Slavery is a federal crime. If you wanted your "heroes" to get away with this without even a slap on the wrist, why not choose a different setting?

/great, now Anita has an excuse to exile anyone she doesn't get along with and have it be a practical move rather than the petty one it really is./

This isn’t just morally wrong; it’s unbelievably ridiculous and pathetic. Heaven forbid the protagonist be surrounded by anyone other than yes-men. No, everything depends on everyone worshipping the ground beneath her feet.

/I can't believe I'm actually reading this. I can't believe this is actually part of any plot in any series. I can't believe this is the solution to an actual problem/

Good grief, not even Twilight stooped this low. The problems of the series weren’t resolved by Bella having sex with everyone – or, in fairness to Meyer’s standards and intended audience, Bella kissing everyone. Bella didn’t make out with Edward and cause all of the problems to vanish by just that act alone. This is just so ridiculous and unbelievably self-indulgent and so obviously porn. This sounds like something that a parody would come up with.

Date: 2013-05-30 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rodentfanatic.livejournal.com
That’s why people are horrified when they learn that slavery persists to this day in other forms, such as human trafficking. Because IT’S WRONG. And no amount of sexy, long-haired therians will change that.

For reals. I'd say someone should write to her but we all know how she'd take it.

If you wanted your "heroes" to get away with this without even a slap on the wrist, why not choose a different setting?
Ditto for the "Anita knows everything about monsters but no one else does, even fellow experts" thing.

This sounds like something that a parody would come up with.
It does, doesn't it? It's almost impossible to parody at this point.

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